A player sees a pine cone fall on his ball at rest in a bunker, pushing it slightly downwards into the sand.
9.6 tells us if we have KVC (known or virtually certain) the ball must be replaced.
9.6 Ball Lifted or Moved by Outside Influence If it is known or virtually certain that an outside influence (including another player in stroke play or another ball) lifted or moved a player’s ball: There is no penalty, and the ball must be replaced on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2).
We’re referred to 14.2 for the replacement process.
d. Where to Replace Ball When Original Lie Altered If the lie of a lifted or moved ball that must be replaced is altered, the player must replace the ball in this way: (1) Ball in Sand. When the ball was in sand, whether in a bunker or anywhere else on the course: In replacing the ball on its original spot (which if not known must be estimated) (see Rule 14.2c), the player must re-create the original lie as much as possible.
However, 8.1d(2) suggests that the original lie may not be re-created.
(2) When Restoration of Worsened Conditions Is Not Allowed. If the conditions affecting the stroke are worsened by the player, by a natural object or by natural forces such as wind or water, the player must not improve those worsened conditions in breach of Rule 8.1a (except as allowed in Rules 8.1c(1), 8.1c(2) and Rule 13.1c).
Would Interpretation 8.1d(2)/1 not further clarify this to allow the restoration because the ball did move vertically downward?
That’s an avenue worth pursuing, Rich. Thanks. it’s late (2317) let us think about it in the morning.
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Good morning, Rich. The question was posed to the USGA Rules on March 12. They may be busy explaining TV stuff! 🙂 I promise that I’ll follow up here as soon as I hear anything.
I’ve asked around to some of my smarter-than-me friends and they’re mulling over the question as well as your suggested Interpretation. No one has a good answer yet.
I will say that the ordinary referee would start at ball at rest moved, follow the trail, and have a pretty good answer in 90 seconds.
CM
Thanks. I’m specifically looking at the phrase “without causing the ball to move” in the interpretation, which would effectively negate 8.1d(2) from the discussion, as the pine cone in question did cause the ball to move downward. To me, 8.1d(2) only applies when the lie surrounding the ball is affected but the location of the ball hasn’t changed.
The answer is 9.6 sends you to 14.2d. Because it’s in sand you use (1).
Thanks Erik, I get that part, but the introduction of 8.1d(2) into the discussion raises an important point that could result in differences of interpretation. That’s why I pointed out Int. 8.1d(2)/1 which allows the restoration of the spot that the ball is sitting on because the ball actually moved.
It also gives us a reason to revisit the definition of “Lie” which many interpret to be the spot that the ball is actually touching. However, it also includes the area immediately surrounding the ball.
Because the definition also allows the small area around the ball to be considered, we have a need for all of these rules – 9.6 and 14.2, which directly involve the ball, and 8.1, which involves “conditions affecting the stroke” – and the interpretation to allow us to ignore 8.1 in this case, because the ball was moved.
Thanks for the deep-dive, folks. Good discussion.
Rich, 8.1d(2) doesn’t apply here. The thing we are allowed to do is address the fact that the ball was moved by an outside influence. Leave aside that the CATS were changed too, for now… You’re right that you don’t get to improve the CATS because of wind or gravity (see 8.1d(2)/1), but this is about the ball moving. In that case, you go from 9.6 to 14.2, and you’re done. The CATS are improved, basically, as a byproduct of 14.2.
I hate “appeals to authority” type things, but as I was at a Rules seminar this week, my “appeal to authority” just so happened to be a guy who wrote the Rules… so I’m taking his word for it, particularly as it tracks with what makes sense to me, too.
For those who are still exploring the Rules, “CATS” or “conditions affecting the stroke” are the lie, the area of the intended stance, the area of the intended swing, the line of play, and the relief area where a player will drop or place a ball.
Hey I get it, but I’m not the one who brought up 8.1d(2) in the first place 😉
At last! USGA Rules is swamped, but they got back to me today.
The correct path is R9,6 to R14.2. Their contention is that R8 isn’t useful for a ball at rest moved situation.
I think we all agreed on R9,6 to R14.2 but I, for one, wanted some assurance that R8 was not applicable,